Section 4.1. 21-29 The Institutes

This post is for a friend. He/she knows what its about, but all my other friends, who read this blog, will not harm themselves by reading it as well.

Not only does the Lord through forgiveness of sins receive and adopt us once for all into the church, but through the same means he preserves and protects us there. For what would be the point of providing a pardon for us that was destined to be of no use? Every godly man is his own witness that the Lord's mercy, if it were granted only once, would be void and illusory, since each is quite aware throughout his life of the many infirmities that need God's mercy. And clearly not in vain does God promise this grace especially to those of his own household; not in vain does he order the same message of reconciliation daily to be brought to them. So, carrying, as we do, the traces of sin around with us throughout life, unless we are sustained by the Lord's constant grace in forgiving our sins, we shall scarcely abide one moment in the church. But the Lord has called his children to eternal salvation. Therefore, they ought to ponder that there is pardon ever ready for their sins. Consequently, we must firmly believe that by God's generosity, mediated by Christ's merit, through the sanctification of the Spirit, sins have been and are daily pardoned to us who have been received and engrafted into the body of the church

We good ol' boy Amuricun religious kinda-folk sure have a hard time with the first sentence in this quote. Why us Baptists jus' know we's goona go to heaven without havin' to think about all that adopted into the church kinda stuff. We be "borned agin," and that's all thar is to it. Period.

Except, "...the Lord through forgiveness of sins receive and adopt us once for all into the church." Dadgum it all. How's a feller s'posed to have any peace 'bout being saved and all, ifn he ain't in charge of his'n own salvation? What's this adopted into the church stuff? Does this feller mean I have to ask forgiveness every day of my life? That there's crazy talk. Ain't it?  I thought I was "once saved always saved" no matter what.

Well for a Baptist this does sound kind of like the Catholics, or the Epicopalians, or maybe even the Anglicans. But, then again...

"...by God's generosity, mediated by Christ's merit, through the sanctification of the Spirit, sins have been and are daily pardoned to us who have been received and engrafted into the body of the church."

...it sure does sound a lot like what the Bible teaches.

[Hat tip to Doug Wilson at Blog and Mablog for this one.]

On Free Will

Do we have free will in the sense that we can do whatever we want when we want?

Here's a good article on this subject.  The writer quotes J.I. Packer:

"The God who ordains the ends also ordains the means, and evangelism and prayer are God-ordained means to God-ordained ends. J. I. Packer argues that you already "acknowledge that God is sovereign in salvation" because "you pray for the conversion of others"  

King David Prays

I Chron 29:10-15

...David blessed the Lord in the presence of all the assembly. And David said: "Blessed are you, O Lord, the God of Israel our father, forever and ever. (11) Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the Kingdom, O Lord, and you are exalted as head above all. (12) "Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all. (13) An now we thank, our God, and praise your glorious name. (14) But who am I, and what is my people, that we should be able thus to offer willingly? For all things come from you, and of your own have we given you. (15) "For we are strangers before you and sojourners, as all our fathers were. Our days on the earth are like a shadow, and there is no abiding."
 
Since I say I believe the Bible is the word of God I have to believe what it says. Here it says everything is God's. Riches and honor come from Him so I have to assume He also "rule(s) over all," just like He says. I don't think "all" in this case means a lot, or most, or much: I think it actually means all.
 
I'm glad He's in charge of everything. The times I've taken charge things got a little messed up. As my wife would say, who is practicing her Brit for an upcoming trip, "you (that's me) get your knickers in a twist."
 
I suppose I do, even though I don't have the slightest notion of what that means. Maybe it's something like "all bent out of shape."

Spurgeon read a lot

The Witenberg Door posted these facts about Charles Spurgeon. I am fascinated by them. I like to read and have a few books in my library. But 12,000? I know Preachers who don't read books and think they are capable of taking care of a congregation.

Spurgeon’s personal library contained 12,000 volumes—1,000 printed before 1700. (The library, 5,103 volumes at the time of its auction, is now housed at William Jewell College in Liberty, Missouri.)

It's one thing to have this many books, what about reading them. The Wittenberg Door post goes on to say, Spurgeon read 6 books a week, and remembered what he read and where, years later.

But, if that weren't enough, Spurgeon also wrote books, lots of books:

The New Park Street Pulpit and The Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit­—the collected sermons of Spurgeon during his ministry with that congregation—fill 63 volumes. The sermons’ 20-25 million words are equivalent to the 27 volumes of the ninth edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica. The series stands as the largest set of books by a single author in the history of Christianity.

And I think I'm really doing something if I read 20 or 30 books a year. I wonder what American Christianity would be like if we had a Spurgeon around today.

Different day different look.

Posting is fun, but sometimes it can be a real drag.

Finding a template (that's the thingy that controls what I write looks like) is not easy. Some things you can do on one, you can't do on another. Some elements you like on one, aren't available on another. I hate the thought of having to learn CSS (that the code templates are written in) for the amount of time I will be using one.

I like blogger, now, I didn't used to, for a couple of reasons. Google own it, so the speed with which it updates is incredible. Moreover, they offer a FREE as in FREE  .com site. And that brings me to why I was looking at and playing with "templates."

By the early part of next year, when my wife has a little time, we are going to start a web site for her Museum Quality Restoration Service. There are hundres of free templates available, but without pretty good CSS knowledge it gets antsy tweaking them to do what I want. Simple things I can do; complex things - not.

Maybe I will find exactly what I want if I keep looking, anyway that's why this page looks different today.

Christians, Hindus, Whatever

Dr. Al Mohler posted on his site concerning the American propensity to believe in just about anything. He linked to a Newsweek article from which the following comes:

"...Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me."

Americans are no longer buying it. According to a 2008 Pew Forum survey, 65 percent of us believe that "many religions can lead to eternal life"—including 37 percent of white evangelicals, the group most likely to believe that salvation is theirs alone. Also, the number of people who seek spiritual truth outside church is growing. Thirty percent of Americans call themselves "spiritual, not religious," according to a 2009 NEWSWEEK Poll, up from 24 percent in 2005. Stephen Prothero, religion professor at Boston University, has long framed the American propensity for "the divine-deli-cafeteria religion" as "very much in the spirit of Hinduism. You're not picking and choosing from different religions, because they're all the same," he says. "It isn't about orthodoxy. It's about whatever works. [emphasis added] If going to yoga works, great—and if going to Catholic mass works, great. And if going to Catholic mass plus the yoga plus the Buddhist retreat works, that's great, too."

My post yesterday didn't mention the small side-discussion I had with a member of our Church about McLaren's leanings toward Islam wherein this person thought there was nothing wrong with showing solidarity by participating in Ramadan with Muslims. After all this person said, "Paul told us to be all things to all people."

I commented that by doing so, McLaren was not being scriptural about his witness. In fact we are commanded to avoid those who will not listen to the Gospel message. Muslims are forbidden to listen, therefore it is very difficult to "be all" to them. Participating in their religion is not what Paul meant. That is why he told the Athenians he would tell them about their unknown God, not celebrate their ignorance with them.

Christianity is a verbally based religion. God set it up so that His "Word" is primary not what our feelings tell us. McLaren obviously "feels" he is doing good. But, words are how humans identify the evidence of sensory inputs. It is through lamguage we form concepts, which means we have to think about what we are doing. McLaren apparently doesn't care one way or the other since his notoriety sells books and that appears "to work" for him. The pragmatic/Hindu concept "works for me," is based entirely on feelings and has nothing to do with reality and the human role to identify it in a God ordained manner. Why else would God have made Adam name the animals - he had to correctly identify the evidence of his senses and demonstrate to God that he could.

But, the idea "works for me" is so pervasive today, even some Christians get caught up in it. For example, many seem to be unable to articulate the role of faith as God explains it in the Bible. Too many of the Christians I know believe that "faith" is a matter of personal choice and that God really doesn't have a role in our beliefs other than He has to accept our statement that we have "accepted Jesus as our personal Savior." This they believe grants them a ticket into heaven because most believe "it works for them." We seldom talk about the part of Scripture that commands us to acknowledge Jesus as our LORD (read slave- master). This idea just does not sit well with our American democratic ideals.

The Newsweek article goes on to say that 24% of Americans now believe in reincarnation. That pretty much ends any idea of Resurrection for those folks. If you die and come back as something else, a monkey, or a cockroach, for example, what need is there for belief in the God of the Bible, let alone accepting Him as slave-master (Lord and Savior).

The article ends with this:

"I do think the more spiritual role of religion tends to deemphasize some of the more starkly literal interpretations of the Resurrection," agrees Diana Eck, professor of comparative religion at Harvard. So let us all say "om."

Meditation, in the Yoga sense of chanting "om," is not something I need. Not since I had to take a "Transcendental Meditation" class in college. So I will say Praise God, and thank you very much, but I will not be fasting in solidarity with my Muslim neighbors. I will, however, tell them that God through His son Jesus can fill the void they are trying to fill through rituals, if they will listen and not kill me for being an infidel.

Last night at church

Last night the adult Bible study class got into a pretty good discussion on how we can identify ourselves as Christians living in our culture. Then our leader mentioned the "ermerging/emergent" church and some of it's problems. I don't recall how he got into that or why.

Anyway, I mentioned that Brian McLaren, a prominent person in this movement, was going to participate in Ramadan as a show of solidarity for one of his neighbors. Here's some of what he wrote:

Among the core values of Ramadan are self control, expressing kindness, and resolving conflicts. For this reason, if we are criticized or misunderstood by Christians, Muslims, or others for this endeavor, we will avoid defending ourselves or engaging in arguments. Instead, we will seek to explain ourselves humbly, simply, and briefly when necessary, connecting with empathy to the needs and feelings of others as we express our own.

Our main purpose for participating will be our own spiritual growth, health, learning, and maturity, but we also hope that our experience will inspire others to pray and work for peace and the common good, together with people of other faith traditions.

I pointed out that on many levels this was not a good idea. Not only is Islam the epitome of Evil, adherents are fobidden to have anything to do with those who will not submit to the teachings of the Koran. Christians should not be giving the illusion of submission by participation in their pagan practices.

Of course we are told to witness to everyone but "becoming all things, to all people," does not include participating in pagan practices. Would McLaren, if he lived next door to a man who believes in Santaria participate in the ritual killing of animals? I don't know, but the way it sounds he might.

Anyway there is so much wrong with this on so many levels I can't believe anyone listens to this guy. You can go here if you want to read what he said. If you want to find out who he is playing with go here.

A word of warning: The last link above will take you to "The Religion of Peace" Web Site. The site is a compilation of the atrocities committed in the name of Allah since 9/11. There have been 13914 deadly attacks by adherents to this religion since that date. These are not nice people, they are not neighborly, they are evil and they want you dead.

Who is this?

I'm not a gambler but if I were I would wager anyone seeing this picture would not be able to identify this person. In the photo he's 26, he says "no one knows I exist," and he claims to live on less than "one dollar a month."

The shack he is leaning against is his home. It is 65 square feet with no amenities. It is located in Kenya, Africa.

He has a famous relative whom he has met twice for brief periods and the relative knows of his abject poverty.

I will give one more brief hint to help you identify him. His halfbrother is currently on a campain to tug at the heart-strings of Americans over the compassion he has for the health needs of everyone. His brother wants to change the world (strike that) health care so that no one need suffer.

The only problem with this destitute man's halfbrother is that he will not help his own family so how in the world can we be expected to believe he will do what he says he will do with our health care system.

Oh! You guessed? Yep! The young man in the picture is President Barrack Hussein Obama's halfbrother. I'm sure if anything had been done since the picture was taken to ease his brother's plight we most certainly would have heard about it: Over and over and over and... well you get the idea.

Voddie Baucham has a great post about this: His link is in my links list. And the picture came from here.

I have a lot to learn

I think I am "becoming." That is an odd word to use in a blog primarily focused on Christianity, it is a word used a lot by philosophers. The philosophical sense is that we are ever changing or "becoming." It's a good theological thought as well: We are not what we will be, to paraphrase John Newton.

In reality, however, it is what Christians are supposed to do. We are supposed to "become" more like Him. The implication is that we learn "as little children" throughout our Christian life. (Matt 18:3)

Let me explain. I am an independent Baptist. I think I have been that my whole life. I was raised in a weird setting in that my Mother was a Pentecostal and my Father had (I'll say) issues with booze. I inherited his issues and had to deal with them in my own life. God took care of those particular demons, so I haven't had to deal with them for over 20 years.

That explains some of who I am. To explain why I'm Baptist and not Pentecostal would take a book, so I'll just say my military dog tags identified me as Baptist. So for most of my life I have identified myself that way.

Over the past several years through study, prayer, thought, and I hope God's enlightenment of what His word says, I am becoming a Reformed Baptist. By that I mean I have come to learn the "independent" part of my identity is slowly disappearing. Scripture is teaching me that, yes I had to come to Christ and as a human I thought I was doing that on my own - independently. I am learning, however, that my salvation never was "independent."

Scripture says Christ is building His Church. (Matt 16:8) Church in this sense is Jesus' body until He returns and He is making me a part of that body - I am not and never was "independent." I am becoming, little by little what He wants.

I didn't independently decide one day to get saved, I was saved over time through the preaching and hearing of the Word, and eventually by God as He opened my understanding of His word. Hundreds if not thousands of people have been involved in my getting to where I am today. All those people are the body of Christ, His Church. I am coming to understand that whatever I have done over the years of my journey never was "me" - in the independent sense -doing anything. Everything I am, is a result of Christ through His Holy Spirit acting upon me.

God in His infinite mercy has been taking me on a journey. God is Sovereign and whatever I am is a result entirely of His activity and none of mine. The only part the former "independent me" has played in this is that at some point I quit "kicking against the pricks" (Acts 9:5) and yeilded to Him. I serve "His Church," not my church. I do the things I do because Christ ordained that is what Mason will do. (Eph 2:10)

My salvation is not something I can point to as occurring on such and such a day, or at such and such a time. In my life, I know it has been a process, an ongoing event, something that will only once for all be achieved when I am "face to face," (1Cor 13:12) and "know Him as I am known."(1Cor 13:12) I know I am moving through life from "faith to faith,"(Rom 1:17) which theologically is sanctification.(Jude 1:1) One of the blogs (Puritanism Today) I read posted this today about Christ's Church:

Now learn even from the simple title ‘mother’ how useful, indeed how necessary, it is that we should know her. For there is no other way to enter into life unless this mother conceive us in her womb, give us birth, nourish us at her breast, and lastly, unless she keep us under her care and guidance until putting off mortal flesh, we become like angels ... Our weakness does not allow us to be dismissed from her school until we have been pupils all our lives. Away from her bosom one cannot hope for any forgiveness of sins or any salvation.”

The quote is from Calvin's Institutes as he explains how Christ uses His body the Church to feed us and grow us as Christians. Calvin says, "...our weakness does not allow us to be dismissed from her school until we have been pupils all our lives." I think I have always believed that and it is because of this knowledge I have such a hard time with the man-made jargon such as; "write the day, date, and time, when you accepted Christ in the front of your Bible. Then you will always have assurance of your salvation." The Bible doesn't say that. The Bible says my assurance comes from what I do now that I believe. (1John 2:29)

So as I continue in my "lessons" in the Church's school of life, I try not to be bothered by some of the things I see and hear that are strictly man-made policies and procedures. But, there are some other things that really bother me, so I guess I better go back to school. I have a lot to learn.

Ahh! Health Care Canadian Style

ABC News 20/20 brings us a short video about what we can expect if the Gang of Three (Obama/Pelosi/Reid) get their way with the nation's health care system. At my age I'm certainly not looking forward to this kind of fiasco.

C.H. Spurgeon Helps Me Teach

Tomorrow brings my turn again, in our 13 week cycle at church, to teach the New Member class. My task is to teach these new members/converts about their Spiritual Gifts.

Every time I teach this subject, I wonder about my abilities to get across God's message to the class. I suppose all teachers have this problem. Seldom do students indicate understanding and because of the nature of the class questions from them are few and far between.

So, to prepare I try to read some of the old lessons and sermons from the giants of the faith in the past. This time I found two of Spurgeon's sermons that were of great help to me. Both deal with faith and the reliance on Christ alone for the affect of my teaching. Here are some excerpts from his sermons.

Spurgeon preached this sermon in 1864, at Metropolitan Tabernacle, London. His words echo through time to inform us today, that saving faith is from God and not our doing.

Now, that which is obtained by us must be given to us; and well are we taught in Scripture that "faith is not of ourselves, it is the gift of God." Although faith is the act of man, yet it is the work of God. "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness;" but that heart must, first of all, have been renewed by divine grace before it ever can be capable of the act of saving faith. Faith, we say, is man's act, for we are commanded to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," and we shall be saved. At the same time, faith is God's gift, and wherever we find it, we may know that it did not come there from the force of nature, but from a work of divine grace.[...]

You shall never find true faith unattended by true godliness; on the other hand, you shall never discover a truly holy life which has not for its root and foundation a living faith upon the righteousness of our Lord Jesus Christ. Woe unto those who seek after the one without the other! There be some who cultivate faith and forget holiness; these may be very high in orthodoxy, but they shall be very deep in damnation, in that day when God shall condemn those who hold the truth in unrighteousness, and make the doctrine of Christ to pander to their lusts.[...]

Are we conscious that we have been operated upon by the Holy Spirit? Is there a vital principle in us which was not there originally? Do we know today the folly of carnal confidence? Have we a hope that we have been enabled through divine grace to cast away all our own righteousness and every dependence, and are we now, whether we sink or swim, resting entirely upon the person, the righteousness, the blood, the intercession, the precious merit of our Lord Jesus Christ? If not, we have cause enough to tremble; but if we have, the while the apostle writes, "Unto them that have obtained like precious faith," he writes to us, and across the interval of centuries his benediction comes as full and fresh as ever, "Grace and peace be multiplied unto you."[...]

And then he said this in his sermon on Fruitless Faith preached in 1861:

The faith that saves is not a historical faith, not a faith that simply believes a creed and certain facts: I have no doubt devils are very orthodox; I do not know which church they belong to, though there are some in all churches; there was one in Christ's Church when he was on earth, for he said one was filled with devils; and there are some in all churches. Devils believe all the facts of revelation. I do not believe they have a doubt; they have suffered too much from the hand of God to doubt his existence! They have felt too much the terror of his wrath to doubt the righteousness of his government. They are stern believers, but they are not saved; and such a faith, if it be in us, will not, cannot, save us, but will remain to all intents and purposes a dead, inoperative faith. It is a faith which produces works which saves us; the works do not save us; but a faith which does not produce works is a faith that will only deceive, and cannot lead us into heaven.[...]

Slowly I am coming to understand the full impact that my salvation is a result of Jesus Christ and His work on the Cross on my behalf. I am learning that the only assurance I have is the change he has made in my life and my almost obsessive desire to serve Him. What I have to learn now, is that when I teach/disciple others the only thing I can be sure of is that the Holy Spirit has to work in them for them to understand. I can't convince anyone of what I know to be true. Only God can do that.

Note: Spurgeon's sermons are on line at Spurgeon's Sermons.

I had to ask my wife...

who is Kourtney Kardashian? Shows you how much TV I watch. She explained Kardashian is a Hollywood person who had some kind of reality show - whatever that is. I always thought reality was waking up in the morning to another day the Lord hath given. Shows you what I know.

Anyway this girl is pregnant and is going to keep the baby. That, apparently, has all the twitterati up in arms because abortion is so easy and so politically correct.

Al Mohler comments about the whole thing on his blog. What impressed me about the whole thing is this from Miss Kardashian:

"I was just sitting there crying, thinking, 'I can't do that,' . . .  And I felt in my body, this is meant to be. God does things for a reason, and I just felt like it was the right thing that was happening in my life."

Here is testimony from a girl who is going to have a baby. I don't know her specific religious beliefs but she has said of herself she believes in the Sovereignty of God. "...God does things for a reason..."

I would venture a guess there are many in my church who don't believe what this young lady believes about God's power over His creatures.

"God does things for a reason, and I just felt like it was the right thing that was happening in my life."

I like that.

Horton's book Christless Christianity

I'm reading - actually studying - Michael Horton's excellent book, Christless Christianity. The book delves into some of the basic problems Horton believes inflict the "American" Church today.

Much, if not most, of what he says I agree with. In a nut shell I get from the book that, we in the American Church, have shifted from a theology of what God has done for humanity to one that is Pelagian, or semi-Pelagian in that we direct our own lives through a "free will" that was not affected by the fall.

What this shift has done is given us a theology wherein we are led to believe we are not truly fallen creatures, dead in our sins, but merely sick ones who through our "free will" and self-directed personal efforts, are able to live our lives in a Christian manner - or not. Pelagius gave us license to teach and preach a moralistic, self-directed Gospel through which, if we follow all the moralistic directions, we will get to heaven.

Horton describes it this way: "...grace is primarily seen by evangelicals as much as by the medieval church as divine assistance for the process of moral transformation rather than a one-sided divine rescue." (pp 61)

What comes across in our preaching is this:

If we are merely wayward, we only need direction; merely sick, we need medicine; merely weak, we need strength. (pp 61).

The Bible is very pointed in the fact that men can do nothing to save themselves. We were not sick, or weak, we were dead in our sins. Grace is an effective gift whereby our Creator changes us for His purposes according to His will. We however, refuse to believe that God would do this to us - change our nature without our permission - so we want to believe His effect (result) is nothing but an affect (emotional, or mental) which we can accept or refuse according to our "free will."

The unintended consequence of this kind of sinful idea, is that God is impotent in the face of our free will, therefore He must stand around and wait for us to decide to "accept" His offer of grace and faith. We change the image of the omnipotent God into a mirror image of ourselves struggling to rescue us.

Earlier preaching - before "revialism" became the sine qua non of so much that is American religion -

...identified self-love as the root of original sin, revivalists appealed to it as a motivation for conversion. With rising confidence in human ability more generally and "an emphasis in Arminian doctrines of free will," sin became transformed "into notions of sin as mistakes in behavior, amenable to correction by appropriate moral education." Like all behaviors, sin could be managed according to predictable principles. (pp 58).

The book does not end with a happy, all is well, scenario. Horton says,

The church desperately needs a second Reformation, to be sure, but one that - like the first one - returns the church's focus to Christ and His work. (pp 216)

I couldn't agree more. We really do need a second Reformation.

This is just wrong!

Our church supports 149 missionaries around the world. We send them each a monthly stipend as do many other churches. That way they are not dependent on one source for their monthly income. There are so-called T.V., ministries which could support them easily but they don't. One of these takes in $100 million per year. They brag about some of the things "god has given them." (The little "g" for God is intentional. They don't worship the God of the Bible I read). The New York Times ran an article about some of these con-artists recently. Here's a sample:

Private airplanes and boats. A motorcycle sent by an anonymous supporter. Vacations in Hawaii and cruises in Alaska. Designer handbags. A ring of emeralds and diamonds. “God knows where the money is, and he knows how to get the money to you,” preached Mrs. Copeland, dressed in a crisp pants ensemble like those worn by C.E.O.’s.

I know a couple who have started an orphanage in Nigeria. They could use some of that cash. They are trying to build homes for the 10 children they have already taken in. I wonder if the Copeland's would consider sending them some money. I doubt it. The article goes on about some followers of Copeland:

The Bielliers were at the convention a few years ago when a supporter made a pitch for people to join an “Elite CX Team” to raise money to buy the ministry a Citation X airplane. (Mr. Copeland is an airplane aficionado who got his start in ministry as a pilot for Oral Roberts.) At that moment, Mrs. Biellier said she heard the voice of the Holy Spirit telling her, “You were born to support this man.”

Now I have no doubt this lady heard voices but I don't think it was the Holy Spirit talking to her. The article in the Times is here.

You want me to what?

Pyromaniacs, the blog is in the long list at the right, has a great "what if" post about Moses and his dealings with God prior to confronting Pharaoh. Here's a sample:

Suppose I imagined that God commonly gave extra-Biblical revelation today. I so many kinds of don't—but suppose I did. And suppose God said, "I want you to go tell this guy the Gospel, because I have hardened his heart so that, not only will he not repent and believe, but he'll become infuriated and want to kill you and torment the people you care most about. I'm going to use this situation to do all sorts of wonderful things."

The whole prophetic revelation thing aside—what would I think? "Okay now, wait—'because'? You want me to talk to this guy, knowing that he won't believe? In fact, You're going to make sure that He won't believe? But for us who believe in Your sovereignty, the whole premise of evangelism is that we don't know who is and isn't elect, so it's our place to sow in hope, and leave the results to You. But here You're telling me, right off the bat, that it's going to be a bust? And that's why You want me to go in?"

Good thing all our "televangelists" and "soul winning" preachers weren't Moses, I'm not sure they would have followed orders. From what I hear and see of these guys and gals, if they can't count some pretty big numbers (either dollars or souls) they aren't very happy.